Author Topic: We have made decision to leave "The Doll Forum".  (Read 4877 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

FlashGordoll

  • Sr. Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 1052
  • She ain't heavy she's just rubber
Re: We have made decision to leave "The Doll Forum".
« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2017, 09:40:08 AM »
Thanks for the info Eva and Oleg.  :thumb:

Just in case Oleg's UKLDF 'password request' falls into Gibmodoll's (Bobs) tray and Bob is too ill at this point to deal with it.  I've taken the liberty of sending this info to a UKLDF senior moderator.  So hopefully it will get sorted out.

Dollstudio

  • Resident
  • ***
  • Posts: 209
    • Dollstudio
Re: We have made decision to leave "The Doll Forum".
« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2017, 10:48:37 AM »
@Camp: I wouldn't worry too much about these banners and visitor stats over there. According to the stats given, we have 20-40 visitors browsing our sub-forum contiuously, though only rarely resulting in an actual sale; I think the last one was in October, three months ago. And as far as I can tell, the (payed) banner ads have zero effect, at least not for what we can advertise. However, it might be different for other vendors or manufacturers.

However, loosing a high-profile manufacturer like Anatomical, for whatever reason, is a severe loss for any community claiming to be representative. That's a fact. If Anatomical will be really affected by their decision to leave this particular forum still has to be seen.

Sandro

Ceej

  • Town Council
  • Sr. Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 7212
Re: We have made decision to leave "The Doll Forum".
« Reply #32 on: January 18, 2017, 12:33:56 PM »
Quote
@Camp: I wouldn't worry too much about these banners and visitor stats over there. According to the stats given, we have 20-40 visitors browsing our sub-forum contiuously, though only rarely resulting in an actual sale; I think the last one was in October, three months ago. And as far as I can tell, the (payed) banner ads have zero effect, at least not for what we can advertise. However, it might be different for other vendors or manufacturers.

I think the point is the damaging and false banner that has been put in place of the advertising banner.
"Leaving it to the imagination" is highly overrated.




Sandy is a B6 F1 Realdoll. In addition she has several F1 expression faces as well as standard F10 and f11 faces. She also has several sets of reuseable "Real Breast" prosthetic breasts.

Dollstudio

  • Resident
  • ***
  • Posts: 209
    • Dollstudio
Re: We have made decision to leave "The Doll Forum".
« Reply #33 on: January 18, 2017, 02:12:13 PM »
@Ceej: Sure, just trying to keep a perspective. Currently, the banner only claims that there are "long delivery times". What exactly are "long delivery times"? A judge might have a different opinion about that than you or me.

What definitely puzzles me more is the quote from #18 which states that "Forums that do not advertise or pay the maintenance fees are restricted to Members Only Viewing." (meaning that potential harm would be further limited to those about 10% of logged-in users).

I just checked http://dollforum.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=50, located at "… Dolls In General - Members Only » … » Anatomical Doll" which is accessible to anonymous viewers. That also applies to other "Members Only" sub-forums like Orient Industry, so something might be misconfigured.

Sandro

Ceej

  • Town Council
  • Sr. Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 7212
Re: We have made decision to leave "The Doll Forum".
« Reply #34 on: January 18, 2017, 02:24:42 PM »
Quote
@Ceej: Sure, just trying to keep a perspective. Currently, the banner only claims that there are "long delivery times". What exactly are "long delivery times"? A judge might have a different opinion about that than you or me.


Either way, it IS a negative banner, and its only there because the maker stopped paying for advertsing space. That's dirty pool, and also very childish.
"Leaving it to the imagination" is highly overrated.




Sandy is a B6 F1 Realdoll. In addition she has several F1 expression faces as well as standard F10 and f11 faces. She also has several sets of reuseable "Real Breast" prosthetic breasts.

Everhard

  • Sr. Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 1485
Re: We have made decision to leave "The Doll Forum".
« Reply #35 on: January 18, 2017, 03:48:23 PM »
However, losing a high-profile manufacturer like Anatomical, for whatever reason, is a severe loss for any community claiming to be representative.

Sandro has found the words for what I was also thinking.

Carl and Dave both mean well, but I suspect that they are struggling with a forum that is expanding too quickly in different directions and, as Dave points out, is targeted increasingly by scammers.

It seems to me that there is a conflict between running a forum that is fair and representative and -- at the same time -- tries to make a profit. Yet, costs of running a forum have to be covered somehow. I do not know much about such things, but it seems to me that a forum run on behalf of a doll manufacturer's association, with subscriptions based perhaps on audited turnover, might be a way forward.

Eva Kumiko

  • Doll Account
  • Resident
  • ***
  • Posts: 202
Re: We have made decision to leave "The Doll Forum".
« Reply #36 on: January 18, 2017, 04:49:10 PM »

"… Dolls In General - Members Only » … » Anatomical Doll" which is accessible to anonymous viewers. That also applies to other "Members Only" sub-forums like Orient Industry, so something might be misconfigured.

Sandro

Rather than a misconfiguration I would call it an ad hoc measure. All the threads were publicly visible and still are, for it takes a lot of time to set the rights again and it will take as much time to restore that if needed. So only the link has been taken from the navigation that anonymous visitors can see.
Ich bin von Kopf bis Fuss auf Liebe eingestellt.
1930, Friedrich Hollaender

Camp

  • Town Council
  • Sr. Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 7946
  • Dottie, 6/14/06, F14/B5SE
Re: We have made decision to leave "The Doll Forum".
« Reply #37 on: January 18, 2017, 06:29:45 PM »

Carl and Dave both mean well, but I suspect that they are struggling with a forum that is expanding too quickly in different directions and, as Dave points out, is targeted increasingly by scammers.

It seems to me that there is a conflict between running a forum that is fair and representative and -- at the same time -- tries to make a profit. Yet, costs of running a forum have to be covered somehow.

With all due respect, I strongly disagree.

Dave's intention from the get-go was to become the center of attention in the Doll-World, and profit off of it. period.

He thought his Doll-Documentary would attract worldwide media attention, and therefore, he needed to put himself in the drivers seat at any cost. Which he did through lies and manipulation.

He never planned on anyone starting another forum, Let alone, several forums.

He purposely and maliciously attacked Lovable Dolls, and later Sinthetics, along with anyone who he deeemed a threat to his enterprise.

His vision was to generate enough wealth so the "owners" would have sufficient income to purchase, houses boats, etc. And I have the management screenies, PM's and emails to back this up.

He spent an incredible sum to purchase TDF, and tried to keep the transaction a secret, then went on to spend more money on forum upgrades and bells and whistles. The whole time banking on his impending fame that would generate traffic on his newly purchased website.

I'm sure he is struggling to maintain a profitable forum.

But he never counted on. 1 ) Internet competition,  2 ) The huge influx of TPE Dolls, and 3 ) His unique style of oppressive moderation turning away people, and 4 ) Someone hiring a lawyer to get out of his Documentary, after he made some borderline extorsive threats.

I could go on, and I could also attach several dozen TDF Management screenies that reinforce my opinions. But this was all done several years in the past, and by the look of things, have'nt changed much.
Talking Doll Since May 26, 2004

“The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons.”

noquiexis

  • Sr. Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 3357
  • Northwest Ohio USA
    • Five Lines - Four Spaces
Re: We have made decision to leave "The Doll Forum".
« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2017, 08:35:09 PM »
     While "long delivery times" may be subjective, there may be other things in the works. I spoke to an attorney who confirmed that Canada does have laws against libel. If the owner or management of that forum posts false or misleading statements, Oleg may have a case against them.

     To my knowledge, there are no laws against being sneaky, underhanded, or unethical. Oleg would have to legally prove that such statements caused harm to his business. If forums do not generate that much business, as Dollstudio mentioned above, then it is not much more than people being childish, as Ceej said.

:-\ :-X :-\
"Like a bolt out of the blue
 Fate steps in and sees you through
 When you wish upon a star
 Your dreams come true"

   Cliff Edwards as Jiminy Cricket (1940)

Trixie and Dixie are Private Secretary inflatable dolls.
Esperanza is a Tera Patrick inflatable doll.
see my gallery for their pictures

Feodora is an Anatomical Doll, Face 3 Body 3 Set 2 Set 3 Set 4

Doc Brown

  • Sr. Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 534
  • Old enough to play with dolls
Re: We have made decision to leave "The Doll Forum".
« Reply #39 on: January 18, 2017, 09:41:11 PM »
It's dirty pool. Plain and simple.
Imagine the outcry if the tables were turned. 

They want to come off like they're some force for good in the doll world and then they pull a stunt like this?
Childish indeed! Makes one wonder how anyone with good conscience can be associated with a management team that pulls these kind of shenanigans.
Is the money really that good that they'd stoop so low as to condone this?

It's sad on so many levels.



jackbeenimble

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: We have made decision to leave "The Doll Forum".
« Reply #40 on: January 19, 2017, 12:34:51 AM »
I frequent TDF but I know to find Anatomical Doll here on ODC and am not put off by the banner on TDF. I agree with general sentiment that it's not right. But just wanted to say I am a great admirer of Oleg's work and one day hope to have an AD of my own.

mi6c

  • New Resident
  • **
  • Posts: 70
Re: We have made decision to leave "The Doll Forum".
« Reply #41 on: January 19, 2017, 04:09:50 AM »
Just another comment:
Within my jurisdiction - and that's neither Canada nor the U.S. - even if you're harmed by someone and win the case you'd have to be able to exactly quantify the damages in terms of proven lost money in order to get compensation.
So, I am viewing this as an attempt to discredit Oleg just because he made a reasonable business decision to no longer pay something not being helpful enough for him in return.
Its pretty childish in a business sense and while unfair most likely just outside the area of monetary liability.
Even winning a libel case to forbid them making false statements is not easy( see DollStudio's comment on "long delivery times"), not very useful( amount of people driving by that particular secluded place on the TDF website is low anyway) and likely does more harm to Oleg financially attempting to win said case in Canada than just shrugging it off and letting it be.
Its just bad ... and pretty sad ... but even without having been there or knowing the details I consider Camps comments on the background pretty likely.
As I see it TDF for now is catering as an advertisement driven place shifting maximum exposure towards their top spenders thereby protecting their income.
They are now leagues away from being a "neutral" or "unbiased" forum and "users" are only wanted as numbers in traffic or if their contributions help them, but not when there is any criticism, especially towards top advertisers.
I am still there and still trying to be "good" but my participation is declining the more they enforce their vision.
It usually takes some time and some changes before someone starts feeling unhappy as normally you just shrug off the small "irritations" and just go on.
The change in their representation structure was the one that ticked me off - relocating some vendor forums to a damp cellar on Alpha Centauri meant that from that point on the three top realistic doll producers were no longer wanted to be seen by the general new user influx - namely Orient Industry, Anatomical Dolls & Sinthetics ( this is a personal opinion on "realism", it is in no way meant to state the others such as "RealDoll" do not produce fine dolls as well).
I think Oleg being the only one actively involved - as OI never had a representative and Sinthetics was near perfectly suppressed for a long time before anyway - did the right move and I wish him and Anatomicals Dolls all the best for the future.

Kind regards.
優月 - Yuzuki = Orient Industry Ange Bihaku Koyuki head on Silicone Arts Super Styling( SS) body
艶 - Tsuya = Orient Industry Petit Jewel Izumi head on Real Taste 146L body
If you have questions about adapters to put a head on a different producers body feel free to ask me.

FlashGordoll

  • Sr. Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 1052
  • She ain't heavy she's just rubber
Re: We have made decision to leave "The Doll Forum".
« Reply #42 on: January 19, 2017, 06:12:41 AM »
I believe this thread is being watched, 1: the (backdoor) link Sandro gave in an earlier post now goes straight to a login page.  2: The potentially harmful banner has now been changed to:

BUYER ADVISORY

TDF Management recommends that visitors research this vendor before placing orders for their product.


Still a kick in the balls though.

Ceej

  • Town Council
  • Sr. Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 7212
Re: We have made decision to leave "The Doll Forum".
« Reply #43 on: January 19, 2017, 09:26:14 AM »
Of course there looking here.
"Leaving it to the imagination" is highly overrated.




Sandy is a B6 F1 Realdoll. In addition she has several F1 expression faces as well as standard F10 and f11 faces. She also has several sets of reuseable "Real Breast" prosthetic breasts.

Camp

  • Town Council
  • Sr. Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 7946
  • Dottie, 6/14/06, F14/B5SE
Re: We have made decision to leave "The Doll Forum".
« Reply #44 on: January 19, 2017, 09:35:08 AM »
As long as the manufacturers keep paying for TDF "approval", There will always be the threat of "disapproval" should they stop paying.

It's a scam.

Smarten up.
Talking Doll Since May 26, 2004

“The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons.”