Author Topic: Beware of "DOLL FORUM"  (Read 703 times)

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finelovedolls

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Beware of "DOLL FORUM"
« on: October 13, 2017, 01:43:26 AM »
Beware of "DOLL FORUM", known as 'TDF". This forum actually belongs to a doll reseller networks, who grants themselves the right to "Approve" competitors as "Authorized Resellers" instead of and without notifying the factory itself. This forum might have interesting tips & advices about dolls care & maintenance, but is a reselling network and cannot therefore be objective.

Whenever a "TDF STAFF" tells you who to buy from, understand that you simply buy from who they consider being "Authorized resellers" meaning them.

This forum has strictly no authority to label their competitors as authorized or not, moreover without notifying doll manufacturers who have the sole right to choose who to work with.

For an objective forum with objective tips & advices, we this forum, Our Doll Community, which does not have conflict of interest.

Why is "DOLL FORUM" not objective? Because we contacted them and have asked to be listed on their forums, we were even willing to pay for it. Instead they stated already having "too many TPE stores" and promote only their own stores and affiliates. They have also blocked us from posting on it right after

Beware of this distribution network, they build numerous artificial websites to justify their high prices, they also register dolls brands domain names to better pretend being the manufacturers which is a misleading and illegal practice. They will scare you off with the risk of scam, but really all they do is play pyromaniacs and firemen…

The truth is that they are simply agents and our competitors and that ordering from them means that there are sometimes up to 3 distribution layers between the store and the manufacturer…needless to say that your order will be heard through the grapevine!

Best regards
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Camp

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Re: Beware of "DOLL FORUM"
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2017, 02:50:53 AM »
... and this is news;D
Talking Doll Since May 26, 2004

“The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons.”

finelovedolls

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Re: Beware of "DOLL FORUM"
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2017, 03:04:13 AM »
 :thumb:
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freefordoll

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Re: Beware of "DOLL FORUM"
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2017, 11:40:14 AM »
I would like to add that if they find out you bought a doll from a "non approved" seller, they will say your doll is a FAKE. Without even knowing where i got my doll i was told she was a fake. She was full of toxic chemicals. She will fall apart. And my dick will fall off if fuck her. (Ok not the last one).  They scare the shit out of you in order to sell a doll. And then "hide" behind there "approved" status.

Doc Brown

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Re: Beware of "DOLL FORUM"
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2017, 12:35:03 PM »
Yeah, I have often wondered what the "approval" process is like.
I doubt they visit many vendors, if any. Calls to the factory?

Likely goes a little something like this...

Potential vendor: "We'd like to be an approved seller"

Doll Forum: "Ok, make the check payable to..."  :cheers:



Begog

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Re: Beware of "DOLL FORUM"
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2017, 01:17:36 PM »
I should point out that at least half of that initial post is absolute bullshit. TDF is owned by David Hockey and Kharn. Hockey used to sell Teddy Babes, but no more. TDF management will not approve JYdolls, or JY-dolls, or JY-whoever, because of the massive confusion about who is legit and who is fake. This forum has already experienced that too. I hope JY can get that straight, because too many entities are claiming to be the legitimate manufacturer. Other makes don't seem to have this problem as long as they pay the advertisement fees. Yes, it's true they want to charge all manufacturers and vendors just for having a subforum on their site, or they will list you as problematic, and I see that as unfair as well, but let's keep the information factual, OK?

finelovedolls

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Re: Beware of "DOLL FORUM"
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2017, 03:40:12 PM »
@begog I seriously doubt it...we have proposed them to pay for banners at first, but they were not interested. Instead they blocked us right away and put us into the scam session on purpose.

All these websites advertised on TDF belong to the same network. One agent resells to others, they use misleading practices and pretend to be who they are not end of the story and this TDF forum is part of this network and is not objective.

What is bullshit is that a third party that has probably never even been to China in his life pretends to have the authority to decide who is legit and who is not, as you stated "too many entities are claiming to be the legitimate manufacturer" The main one advertised under WM Dolls on TDF is not the factory. It is an agent using WM domain to better pretend.
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Dollstudio

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Re: Beware of "DOLL FORUM"
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2017, 09:28:11 PM »
Hi finelovedolls,

TDF has a "banned sites list". As far as I can tell, your site is not banned on TDF.

I agree that TDF faces a lot of challenges, especially since TPE dolls are flooding the market. But there is no other resource worldwide who managed to deal with the changes which were introduced by the mass-production of dolls yet. Everybody is struggling with the pace of these changes, with deceit and dishonesty, braggery and blunt scam attempts. Manufacturers, vendors, customers. Everybody.

TDF is at least trying to establish a minimum of fair play. Sometimes they succeed, sometimes they fail. But they are at least trying.

Having that said, it is total nonsense that "all these websites advertised on TDF belong to the same network". In fact there is a lot of competition; a few vendors talk to each other, but most are just hostile and consider every competitor an arch enemy. Sure, there are some alliances from time to time, but actually I consider the *lack* of networking across all players one of the biggest weaknesses of TDF. Imho, the doll industry has reached a point where it would require something like an lobbying or interest group, allowing it to communicate with one voice. E.g. if dolls get randomly seized (as it recently happened in the UK), or if politicians talk rubbish about dolls.

The fact that the WM Dolls brand is not the same as the WM Doll brand, and the fact that 'agents' represent or claim to represent factories like Jinshan are well known, even on TDF. As it seems, JY has a similar issue with rogue agents. And other factories are unknown because they do not have agents who promote them internationally; an example would be Happy Doll, a factory that is just inaccessible to non-Chinese businesses. So I am very thankful that I have a middleman in China with access to factories like this. If you are on location in China, it is your advantage to be able to scout new factories and help them to build an international brand.

Why TDF does not let new vendors in anymore is no secret - the boat is (more than) full with vendors, where everybody is selling exactly the same as everybody else. If you invent a unique service or offer something really relevant for TDF's primary target group - customers from the U.S. - they probably will reconsider. Such unique services could be an independent quality check, like George from X/S invented it, or a network of showrooms across the U.S.

If you start some brainstorming, you might come up with some new ideas that could drive innovation.

Sandro

Begog

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Re: Beware of "DOLL FORUM"
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2017, 09:42:49 PM »
@finelovedolls: First, please answer this question: Are you claiming to be a manufacturer, vendor, or some other affiliate of JY dolls? Second, TDF, ODC, and Gibbmodoll are FORUMS that do not produce silicone or TPE dolls, and are not competing in the doll market. You were blocked right away, because of JY affiliation, because as I said, "too many entities are claiming to be the legitimate manufacturer." And no, they probably haven't been to China to determine who the rightful manufacturer is and who is making the many fakes. I know JY makes good dolls, but counterfeits are everywhere, soiling their name. And yes, there are counterfeit Jinsan dolls out there too, but TDF feels they know who the producers of OR, YL, WM, and Jellynew are, along with 6YE, so they get "approved."
It is my firm belief that JYdoll-Ray represents the legitimate JY doll factory, as Sandro of Doll Studio and Jeff of Booty Call Dolls have both confirmed him as legit. I have even purchased a JY doll from BCD, who is my preferred vendor. And guess what? Both Doll Studio and BCD have vendor accounts on TDF. I have an account as well, but as a member who swims in many ponds. To better understand just some of the confusion, take a look at these threads.

http://ourdollcommunity.com/forum/index.php?topic=9368.0
http://ourdollcommunity.com/forum/index.php?topic=8609.0

Rather than just ban all things JY, ODC seems to be letting this whole saga play out, to see where the chips fall. I commend them for that, but as you can see, it was a confusing mess before you got here. What have you to say to them? That they are copies or Rifrano, or will you align with someone? I for one, am curious as to where you stand in all this. Please read those threads and then make a statement.

Ah, I see while I was typing this, Sandro made a statement. Good for him.  :thumb:

finelovedolls

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Re: Beware of "DOLL FORUM"
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2017, 11:47:10 PM »
Hi Sandro, thank you for taking the time to write this message, that still does not justify why other resellers after us were added...

I totally agree with this idea of lobbying and I also believe these practices are not good for customers or doll lovers.

Begog we are not claiming to be a manufacturer and we work with JY Dolls just like others on TDF too. TDF, ODC and Gibbmodoll looks more part of a nebula with conflict of interest at least this is what it looks like. And there is clearly a double talk.

Yes the difference with ODC and TDF is the exact same you have between a democracy and a dictatorship, being: Freedom of speech. And this is what we are doing here: Talking freely.

1.  We never scammed or advertised on TDF, stumbled upon their website, emailed them to learn more about advertising solutions, got coldly refused then IP blocked from using any features of the website.

2. Our Facebook and Youtube accounts have been reported and suspended right away as well as JY...funny coincidence

3. A few days ago, a member of TDF staff on purposely categorized us within the "scam" category deliberately knowing the impact it will have SEO wise. We are not even allowed to post any topic

TDF play it fair and cut a little on hypocrisy. Stop this double talk. You are pyromaniacs and firemen you scare off buyers just so they can buy from that nebula you created, you can't trick some people sometimes but you cannot trick all the people all the time, it does not take a genius to understand this business model of yours. You are not as innocent, objective, and arbitrary as you are pretending to be and you know it. And when you get caught red handed and act as you do not know, we all know that you know very well, way too well.

The harsh truth is that we manage to propose better prices with more modest margins and the so called doll lobby hates that. And the agent behind this lobby hates that, because he does not work with us as a middleman and does not get his cut. We are through with these bully practices and we are denouncing them once and for all.

Remove us from this scam session of your website and stop these misleading and disloyal practices. We are working without bothering anybody and are getting tired of these sneaky attacks
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finelovedolls

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Re: Beware of "DOLL FORUM"
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2017, 12:06:51 AM »
http://ourdollcommunity.com/forum/index.php?topic=9368.0
http://ourdollcommunity.com/forum/index.php?topic=8609.0

I don't even want to lose time commenting these artificial threads you create, that is the exact same protagonists as here, funny coincidence

Side note: Your so called "Certificate" that you show on pictures on these threads do you even know what is written on it in Chinese? It says 使用说明 shiyong shuoming, do you know what that means? It means Instructions for use.... :laugh:

There are no such things as "certificates" or "authorized resellers" Factories do not have any certificate of authenticity and you know it. Working directly with the factories and in Chinese is enough to prove that we are authorized resellers and it is not a third party based outside China and pretending to be an authority in the industry that will say the opposite.
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Bipolar Bear

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Re: Beware of "DOLL FORUM"
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2017, 01:33:39 AM »
i have been a member of tdf for a while and a lurker of odc for a short while. and at first i was going to use the same user name as i really dont care, i decided not to as i dont want my opinions to blow back on others that i know on tdf

 i do see the 2 forums take a rather different approach to dolls, tdf being more closed and regulated and odc being an open market with fewer restrictions. both have their merits. as a person who does not have a large amount of disposable cash i would say my preference to purchasing a doll would lean towards tdf's more closed methods. as $2000 is a huge investment to me

however.i do find tdf's methods of approval to be something that is not explained in any detail and is simply to be taken on faith. many times it has been asked what this means and many times it is the usual answer of a rigorous process of quality control in product and service. that tells me nothing. what allows a business to be approved? what standards must they maintain. are they routinely checked to ensure standards are maintained? and what must they do before crossing a line to lose their approved status? one of the biggest problems i have with this approval status is that this seems to also include the suppression of negative reviews towards vendors. its ok to criticize manufacturers for doing something wrong but vendors are not.

i have dealt with almost all the vendors on tdf and purchased from many and i will say that my experiences have varied greatly. most were a relatively neutral perspective and 2 were downright awful. one i ended the deal before it went ahead and another decided it was ok to tack on an added expenses post payment. i complained to tdf management about that but as my payment method had a 24hr cool of period with transactions over a certain value i cancelled that transaction 22hrs later as i had not had a response. im not saying that this is tdf's fault and im sure they would have helped me through the process but the fact that this occurred left me a little concerned as to what standards need to be maintained to remain on tdf.

well that was the negative. i will say that tdf does have 2 vendors that i can only describe as absolutely amazing. they went above and beyond what they should do to ensure i was 100% happy. 1 went even to the point of telling me after i had given the ok to ship after i was satisfied with the makeup to sleep on it and see how i feel in the morning. which i did and ended up wanting something to be changed...so this was sound advice. i still have contact with them despite not having made purchases in some time. now that is service. and these are the 2 more quieter vendors who keep to themselves. who don't post outside of their area and almost never get mentioned except by the few who have the pleasure in dealing with them.

i have however noticed 2 posts that seem to be targeting other vendors in regards to prices. this is something that i do not believe should have been discussed public, or even at all. i fully understand the need to maintain a viable and sustainable profit margin to ensure the longevity of the doll industry but manufactures wholesale to vendors at a price which they have already deemed to be include that margin. from this point on the costs are shipping and vendor profits which determines the end price of a doll.

if one doll vendor has a larger setup and staff in an area of the world which has much higher costs of running a business, why should a vendor in a lower cost part of the world who is running his business out of his garage and is a one man show be forced to raise their prices to where they can no longer be competitive with the much larger business.

well, i just felt the need to post this for what its worth. am am not saying tdf's methods is wrong or that odc's is right. i guess what i am saying is that consistency and transparency would go a long way to ensure that core goals of tdf continue to better the doll community as a whole

finelovedolls

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Re: Beware of "DOLL FORUM"
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2017, 02:10:40 AM »
If TDF were to really be an authority within the doll industry, they would act as such and not trick customers with misleading or wrong information.

If you claim to be an authority on a given market you have to behave like it, be arbitrary and do not serve any conflicts of interest.

Don't get me wrong we are not denouncing the quality of service of TDF's vendors, which is certainly great, and most obviously real products, some, and there are a lot of scam artists and fake dolls out there that is totally true.

We are denouncing disloyal practices here in an effort to give doll lovers the transparency they deserve. Not sure who is operating from his garage, but we think useful to precise here that Fine Love Dolls is not just another shop duplicata shop, part of a network all managed by a few people, assuming this is the reason behind these higher prices as you say.

We are legally registered in China as a company and have actually legal ways to protect our buyers shall any problem arise, when most resellers could not even get a visa to China if they wanted to.

We persist and sign to say that TDF is doing traffic of influence and is not legally allowed to call itself an industry authority, just like they understate that we are a scam.
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finelovedolls

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Re: Beware of "DOLL FORUM"
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2017, 02:22:34 AM »
And please quit hiding behind fake member names, it's all too clear who is writing...this strategy is as old as business...

Same as the guy with 3 cups and a ball on the street, and his friend on the side betting money to attract more players to bet

Come on guys, a little honesty and transparency out here please 
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Bipolar Bear

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Re: Beware of "DOLL FORUM"
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2017, 03:16:17 AM »
im not entirely sure who you think i am but if you read my post the concept behind is that as a tdf member i would like to see the veil of vendor approval to be lifted. well that was my intention any way. sorry if that wasn't conveyed properly.

as a member of tdf i think we should be privy to the process as it is occurring. don't need the full details but it would help in the understanding of how thing are run. i had no idea you had even approached them nor that you were rejected. and yes i disagree with your name being placed in the scam section. that is unfair and based on nothing except you not on the approved list and is potentially damaging to your business and is uncalled for.

in fact it has become something of a point of interest of mine to look into the sites whos names appear in the scam section just to see what they are about. some obviously deserve to be there based of what their selling while others such as yourselves could very easily place alongside any other vendor on tdf selling similar goods. since seeing your name appear their. went to your site. looked around at what you had to offer and everything seems to be as it should be. your dolls are named correctly your prices are normal. it was while dong research on you that i seen your post here and felt compelled to respond. if the reason for rejection was because their is enough tpe vendors then that is absurd. competition is what drives the free market. not monopoly

the silver doll is another one whos name has appeared in there a while back. their dolls and price system looks authentic. an email to some of the manufactures confirms they are receiving legitimate items. and tdf members that have said they bought from them have posted that they are happy with dolls purchased from them. yet not approved on tdf.