Author Topic: Happiness is on a mission  (Read 17855 times)

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happiness

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Happiness is on a mission
« on: May 15, 2011, 06:18:27 PM »
Am I the only one that would like to see a lighter male doll? Several of my friends are, but they are not part of the doll community (yet. ;)). So, I'd like to hear from all the guys and gals that are interested. What are your thoughts, and ideas?  :)













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Camp

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Re: Happiness is on a mission
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2011, 06:20:55 PM »
Sounds like a girl on a mission !   Good Luck !
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ourdoll1

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Re: Happiness is on a mission
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2011, 07:19:05 PM »
Sounds like a very good mission too!

So, how about it, doll makers? 

Musician

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Re: Happiness is on a mission
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2011, 02:17:49 AM »
In terms of actual weight, what do you think would be the most acceptable weight for the doll to be for you and your friends?

I'm guessing that you thinking in terms of a solid silicone doll, and one that you and your freinds would feel manageable to move about.

So basically, I'm asking about how many pounds?
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Bronwen

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Re: Happiness is on a mission
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2011, 02:13:45 PM »
When requesting something like this make sure the request is realistic. Life-size male dolls are heavy especially if you want them soft and poseable. So do you want a mini male, a small thin male, a male that can be hard and not as flexible as long as he's life-size and light? This is not a simple question or simple engineering/design...
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WinstonSmith

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Re: Happiness is on a mission
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2011, 07:18:46 AM »
All I can say is I hope you find what you're looking for in a doll!  8)

happiness

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Re: Happiness is on a mission
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2011, 04:46:45 PM »
 :)Thank you for the well wishes. I really appreciate your interest.
Musician and Bronwen, I realize that when it comes to getting a manageable weight for the male dolls, we may have to give up something, to get something. I am only 5'0, so a shorter doll would be lighter and more manageable for me. I would like my doll to be physically fit with some muscle definition and have a handsome adult face. I could manage an 80-90 pound doll, if he was indeed around my height. I'd still want him poseable. And for ease of getting his pants on, I'd like his legs closer. Our Stacy doll has that typical wide leg stance, and it takes me and Roust both to get a pair of pants on that girl! :laugh: The ranges of flexibility and softness are negotiable, but I'm not sure how those would effect poseability or durability of the doll.
I am trying to be realistic in both understanding the engineering aspects of making these dolls, and what the upper limits can be for a lighter male doll for people who would want or need one. I feel so strongly that there is an untapped market here, that Roust and I have begun our own research into it's feasibility. Roust has a strong art background , and is helping me understand the technical aspects. To be a manufacturer of these dolls, one has to be an artist, an engineer, and have a strong knowledge of human anatomy. The technical aspect of it all is extremely difficult. That's why I'd much rather a well established manufacturer take on this challenge. 
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Bronwen

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Re: Happiness is on a mission
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2011, 05:28:27 PM »
:)Thank you for the well wishes. I really appreciate your interest.
Musician and Bronwen, I realize that when it comes to getting a manageable weight for the male dolls, we may have to give up something, to get something. I am only 5'0, so a shorter doll would be lighter and more manageable for me. I would like my doll to be physically fit with some muscle definition and have a handsome adult face. I could manage an 80-90 pound doll, if he was indeed around my height. I'd still want him poseable. And for ease of getting his pants on, I'd like his legs closer. Our Stacy doll has that typical wide leg stance, and it takes me and Roust both to get a pair of pants on that girl! The ranges of flexibility and softness are negotiable, but I'm not sure how those would effect poseability or durability of the doll.
I am trying to be realistic in both understanding the engineering aspects of making these dolls, and what the upper limits can be for a lighter male doll for people who would want or need one. I feel so strongly that there is an untapped market here... That's why I'd much rather a well established manufacturer to take on this challenge.
 ^-^

These are the places things do not cooperate (just for your information and to help everyone give manufacturers a more focused sense of where to go):
* Lower weight hates softness and range of motion. A firmer doll with large cores is light but the bigger the cores, the harder the doll and the less the joints can move.
* Taller height and more bulk (read: "muscles") = more weight

So far the call from men seeking dolls in the market is that they want dolls over 5'8" and either very tall/skinny, or very thickly built/muscled. Both characteristics if softness and range of motion are maintained lead to very high weights (100+ pounds). I do think from personal experience with dolls that people put too much emphasis on greater height - dolls take up more space than you'd think and often seem taller than they are.

Before taking on all the sculpting and mechanics of a doll the market has to first be proven (or at least very obviously wanting). At this stage the biggest call is for male dolls 5'7" and taller, even at the cost of higher weight. If there is a large feminine population out there who is unserved, they need to really speak up and get in on the discussions about what they want. And then of course, the hard part, is having them put their money where their mouth is! If people do not buy the dolls that they ask for, the fact is manufacturers will stop looking at the forums and either stick with what they know sells or just make what they want. There's a common trend for people to demand and demand and demand certain features/styles/looks, then when it gets to market they go "Oh, that's nice" and never order. Ultimately it's the people who actually buy who push the market forward and those who just talk about what they want but will never order actually can hurt the industry because it costs manufacturers SO much to make each new body. It also hurts the industry and the ability of small manufacturers to continue to develop when people make demands/suggestions, see a company make exactly what they want and only then start saving. The financial outlay to make a doll is much more than anyone could guess because there's more to it than just a nice sculpture. These statements are not pointed at anyone, just things that people should be conscious of when trying to direct what gets made when. Frankly, if the market exists and people do actually buy what they ask for, Sinthetics will be HAPPY to step up and make all kinds of different items. But only if the market legitimately exists (ie: Orders support development.)

Oh, and btw, the problem with the wide-spread stance is not specific to all brands. Some doll brands don't have that issue...
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mytime

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Re: Happiness is on a mission
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2011, 04:29:35 PM »
Hi all,

I agree on Bronwen that e.g. a 5 feet male doll may be a product for which is only a small market/small demand, he will be smaller than quite some female dolls, he may be able to weigh 75 lbs. I think he will always be heavyer than female dolls due his more volumptuous torso (you want a male huh?). I think there is not so much demand for such small male doll...
The doll is more difficult and expensive to make than things from which one only makes one like a lost wax bronze sculpture, due one needs for the doll to cast the mold, sculpt cores, skull, and also he needs his skeleton.
I can understand Bronwen's statement if then the product is finally ready after a lot effort in smoothening out problems then there need to be orders too to cover cost and earn profit.
I think that people who are very persisting can build such doll eventually on their own, but it is not an easy job, and sculpting the doll and esp. the head is difficult, and one will find that he/she ends up with a lot costs. Also processes used are often quite critical, one needs to be quite handy with mixing and eventually degassing and pouring stuff and not exceed the pot life during processing it. I know one thing that I will not be easy affraid about not being able to make certain sculptures pieces of art when I finish the doll cause those can not easy be more difficult, one learns a lot. Last but not least one needs to craft steel too, to create a skeleton and a rugged head connector so that the head does not pop off each time you move her around. I think one can do all this work but look at it as a project like building a small vessel or a daysailer, those are too things that are demanding on time. On the other hand a 15 year old high school boy did succesfully build his own submarine http://www.vulcaniasubmarine.com/KARL%20STANLEY.htm  and did dive to 500 feet, so why can't one build a doll?

Mytime & Helen & Carmen
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happiness

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Re: Happiness is on a mission
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2011, 09:00:10 PM »
 :) I reserve the right to say "I told you so" in the future. I'm marking this spot so that I can refer back to it at a later date. :P
I was going to leave it at that, but I can't help myself, so here it goes.
Bronwen, I am a female doll owner that would like to purchase a light male doll. I can't buy him because he doesn't exist. Women who would buy him, don't even know he's a possibility.  Women don't post or join these forums because they're really not geared toward them. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for Roust. The male dolls that are being made now are made for, and marketed to men. If someone was brilliant enough to make a male doll for a woman and market it to her, she would buy it. The proof is that I am a female
doll owner of 4 dolls, all female. There are no reasonable other options for me.
Mytime, thank you. You are so right. There is nothing preventing me from developing what I want.  :) :)
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noquiexis

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Re: Happiness is on a mission
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2011, 01:30:25 AM »
Happiness,

     A light-weight, sturdy, soft, durable, and posable male doll is the dream of many of us men, too. If I had the cash, I would have had an Adam LD for the studio in a heartbeat. I still have my heart set on a Pixie for all of those "Lord of the Rings" shoots that I have been dreaming about.

     Eventually technology will catch up with demand, and the doll that you want will become a reality. When dolls can walk, talk, and do dishes (as in the movie Cherry 2000), and still be sold at an attainable price, many more people will be joining the doll hobby.

     There are those in the medical field who have been looking forward to that day long before the first life-sized doll was ever produced. Imagine what such technology could do for those who have suffered the loss of a limb. Lightweight, fully functional replacement parts will someday become a reality. Good science fiction is usally based on good science fact.

     I join the others who wish you all success with your quest!

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Re: Happiness is on a mission
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2011, 07:14:22 AM »
:)Thank you for the well wishes. I really appreciate your interest.
Musician and Bronwen, I realize that when it comes to getting a manageable weight for the male dolls, we may have to give up something, to get something. I am only 5'0, so a shorter doll would be lighter and more manageable for me. I would like my doll to be physically fit with some muscle definition and have a handsome adult face. I could manage an 80-90 pound doll, if he was indeed around my height. I'd still want him poseable. And for ease of getting his pants on, I'd like his legs closer. Our Stacy doll has that typical wide leg stance, and it takes me and Roust both to get a pair of pants on that girl! The ranges of flexibility and softness are negotiable, but I'm not sure how those would effect poseability or durability of the doll.
I am trying to be realistic in both understanding the engineering aspects of making these dolls, and what the upper limits can be for a lighter male doll for people who would want or need one. I feel so strongly that there is an untapped market here... That's why I'd much rather a well established manufacturer to take on this challenge.
 ^-^

These are the places things do not cooperate (just for your information and to help everyone give manufacturers a more focused sense of where to go):
* Lower weight hates softness and range of motion. A firmer doll with large cores is light but the bigger the cores, the harder the doll and the less the joints can move.
* Taller height and more bulk (read: "muscles") = more weight

So far the call from men seeking dolls in the market is that they want dolls over 5'8" and either very tall/skinny, or very thickly built/muscled. Both characteristics if softness and range of motion are maintained lead to very high weights (100+ pounds). I do think from personal experience with dolls that people put too much emphasis on greater height - dolls take up more space than you'd think and often seem taller than they are.

Before taking on all the sculpting and mechanics of a doll the market has to first be proven (or at least very obviously wanting). At this stage the biggest call is for male dolls 5'7" and taller, even at the cost of higher weight. If there is a large feminine population out there who is unserved, they need to really speak up and get in on the discussions about what they want. And then of course, the hard part, is having them put their money where their mouth is! If people do not buy the dolls that they ask for, the fact is manufacturers will stop looking at the forums and either stick with what they know sells or just make what they want. There's a common trend for people to demand and demand and demand certain features/styles/looks, then when it gets to market they go "Oh, that's nice" and never order. Ultimately it's the people who actually buy who push the market forward and those who just talk about what they want but will never order actually can hurt the industry because it costs manufacturers SO much to make each new body. It also hurts the industry and the ability of small manufacturers to continue to develop when people make demands/suggestions, see a company make exactly what they want and only then start saving. The financial outlay to make a doll is much more than anyone could guess because there's more to it than just a nice sculpture. These statements are not pointed at anyone, just things that people should be conscious of when trying to direct what gets made when. Frankly, if the market exists and people do actually buy what they ask for, Sinthetics will be HAPPY to step up and make all kinds of different items. But only if the market legitimately exists (ie: Orders support development.)

Oh, and btw, the problem with the wide-spread stance is not specific to all brands. Some doll brands don't have that issue...

Excellent post. This cuts through a lot of fog concerning not only why certain male body-types haven’t been produced, but why many body-types in general don’t get made. The point about a certain section of "prospective buyers" making demands (but not having any real plan in place to ever actually buy what they demand) is something I’ve suspected was a big concern for doll makers over the years as well. Talk is cheap - research, development, and production isn’t.   

happiness

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Re: Happiness is on a mission
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2011, 09:40:54 PM »
Noquiexis,  :-* :-* :-* Thank you! All I hoped to get out of this thread was validation that there are guys and gals that have interest in a smaller, lighter male doll. I have no doubt that someone will make him.  ;D I just hope it's in my lifetime. I'm not sure silicone is the way to go. Maybe someone will come up with something new and better. :D
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WinstonSmith

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Re: Happiness is on a mission
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2011, 03:07:22 PM »
Perhaps there are some Asian smaller/lighter weight male dolls? Does 4woods, Orient Industries etc. make male dolls?

Please don't take offense, but the mental image of RG/ Male doll together is rather fascinating to me.  :-[

happiness

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Re: Happiness is on a mission
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2011, 07:25:31 PM »
I do not take offense.  :) I would be surprised if more men weren't intrigued. Right now, there are only two male dolls. Both are Real Dolls. Body A, the more muscular one is 110-115 pounds and 5'9. Body B is 90-95 pounds, less muscular, and is 5'9. Sinthetics will eventually be making a male doll. From what I gather so far, he will also be another
tall, heavy doll.  That's the choices for us girls. :(  Not a single male oriental doll to be found.  :o Unless I've missed one. Let me know if I have!

The fact is that there are no male dolls being made for women. We want to play too! :P
I've never met a Doll I didn't like!!!