Author Topic: Get ODC on the map!  (Read 9204 times)

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noquiexis

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Re: Get ODC on the map!
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2011, 01:34:27 PM »
     One of the best things about Our Doll Community is that it is a member-driven hobby website. If we rave about one manufacturer and complain about another, it is only because of the quality of their products, services, and post-purchase customer care. In that regard, think of this website as an unbiased "Consumer Reports".

     The greatest portion of our content is not whether one manufacturer is better than another, but rather a place where doll lovers, whether they own a doll or not, can talk about what they like or dislike about each individual doll (within acceptable limits). We also have the opportunity to brag about the dolls that we do own, and show them off in the posts and galleries.

     We have the opportunity to explore the fantasy of doll ownership through stories of their exploits. In this community, even non-doll owners may add to the commentary of a doll's personality, and his or her wants, desires, and quirks.

     An internet search will find websites devoted to forums for the Ford Mustang, Civil War reenactment (groups, clothing, weaponry), and electric violins. If we keep doing what we are doing now, the word will get out.

     I did a check for "doll forums" on the Publishers Clearing House search engine and found Our Doll Community on page 6. Not the best results, but we are still relatively new and small. The Doll Forum and Gibbmodoll's UK Doll Lovers Forum were on a few pages. Sinthetics came in on page 9. I did not see mbishop99's Doll Lover's Forum at all, but I could have missed it. Why should I link to these other forums? All forums promote the doll hobby one way or another. It is the membership of these forums that make them desirable.

     One of the things that I do to promote Our Doll Community is to include links in relavant e-mails, usually photo shoots. People forward e-mails rather than compose original messasges, so I have no idea how far they go. There are links on my personal website that point to Our Doll Community (with age warnings) in my doll photo shoots.

     I saw today that a couple of spammers posted here, and were squashed by the mods. (Well done, mods!) If they can find us, then real people can find us. On the other hand, if other spammers are having trouble finding us, then that might be a good thing, too.

Musician,

     When a person chooses and purchases a doll, that doll is always the right kind of doll for that person, regardless of doll type, make, model, sex, or features. Sometimes we don't do enough homework, but for the kind of cash outlay that today's dolls demand, most of us do. Do not ever let anyone tell you that you have the wrong doll. How you see your doll is the only important factor.

The Mod Squad
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Trixie and Dixie are Private Secretary inflatable dolls.
Esperanza is a Tera Patrick inflatable doll.
See my gallery for their pictures.

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N. poeticus

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Re: Get ODC on the map!
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2011, 03:00:18 PM »
I'm surprised to see members here now discuss manufacturer advertising with a positive point of view, because ever since TDF went for it, people smelled manufacturer bias and blamed management for it.

Hi, Vanessa.

There are also friendships, alliances, other factors that can be invovled in influencing what people say and do.  Bumping threads, encouraging people to post thread, photos, reviews - all kinds of stuff can happen without money being exchanged.  Doll Makers can pay for advertising, or advertise themselves, or encourage others to advertise, encourage them to  spam the forum with anything and everything them. Without money being exchanged.  If I was in advertising there - I would sell the front space to the highest bidder.  I don't give a fuck if it's RealDoll, Ruby, Candy8teen that pledges the highest amount to me - I would ONLY care about the money.  I think that is beautiful, because I am not being biased one bit.  I could be though, as I have nothign against that either, I most certainly do not want to imply that.  I could just give the spot to Candy8teen simply because I like their dolls.  Did I do anything wrong by that?  It's within my rights to do whatever I want, my place to do so, so no. 

But:

If people don't like the way I do things however I choose to do them, it could potentially leave me vulnerable somewhat depending on what they do/say etc., and so less traffic would mean less money I can get off of the Makers, so I would try to be unbiased in regards to advertising, because I'd make more money that way, probably.  I'd have a special section on the forum accessible by me and all the Makers.  And make a bid war right there, so they can clearly see, it's ALL ABOUT THE MONEY, nothing else.
Genesis 2:18  "The [Doll] God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a [doll] suitable for him.”

Matthew 5:16 "Let your [photos] so shine before men, that they may see your [pretty dollies], and glorify [their Doll Maker]."

my photos: http://www.dollalbum.com/dollgallery/index.php?cat=11660

Videos of my mannequin Kristen can be watched here on my YouTube playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLo50bfTa6YGkjEMY6SJRckkgAY-SBq_kJ

WinstonSmith

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Re: Get ODC on the map!
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2011, 03:13:44 PM »
Bigger site means bigger traffic and download and means bigger costs, like that or not, it is what it is. I know that from my own pissy website already, which at best times had more than 100 visitors a day and that was enough already I had to spread the content on several free webspace accounts, or accept advertising banners.

TDF finances have never been discussed, not even in upper management. Bill never ever talked about it, but I guess it was a thing between him (owning the site) and Ish (running the site). When Ish was gone, it was Mytime running it, and there never was a discussion about payments, not even in management, and I was an admin back then and didn't hear shit about it. So I figure it was a thing between Bill (owning the site) and Mytime (running the site, renting server space and traffic). Now there is still never talk about money, so I guess it's a thing between those owning the site (Midi, Kharn, Incredi) and those running the site.

TDF having been able to pay the costs from toystore sales may have worked in the founding days, but for anything else, this is an easy to see lie. And ODC is still in the founding days. The store sales didn't help much with financial crisis coming up, like Mytime mentioned. But they also didn't safe the day before, hence, under Ish's reign, there were several crisis and people discussing donation drives. (back in those days, there was another sink of money that I will NOT talk about, in respect of the memory of certain people)

I'm surprised to see members here now discuss manufacturer advertising with a positive point of view, because ever since TDF went for it, people smelled manufacturer bias and blamed management for it. One of Ish's philosophies was to never accept manufacturers adding money by whatever way (donations, ads) to make sure manufacturers never get any leverage on content. Now we have it on TDF for over a year. Up to today, I still lack to see any prove for any manufacturer having leverage on content on whatever level, not up to where I have access in management. However, I don't know how often a week Midi or Kharn or whoever might look into the business end of a shotgun... But they surely don't have a leverage for a few dollars for an advertising, an amount that, at best, also just *helps* to pay for the costs, but surely not run the thing.

And before you discuss ranking on search engines, discuss if you want a small intimate community or a large vehicle being troll-struck. And while ranking with search engines is growth or money, if you want a big thing, it would be easier to open a few accounts on troll sites yourself and "advertise" over there... increases visitors, increases hits, increases ranking... for free... and makes us known all over the web in no time... ::)

As always, good insight, V. I mean even the something awful crowd found ODC to be too small and boring to bother with- Which was a definate plus, not having to deal at all with the nastiness they brought to TDF.  Perhaps smaller *is* better. I only can say that I know everyone here and not ONE person I do not like. Can't say the same for TDF. As it were you've always been a voice of reason and I have always carefully considered your thoughts and ideas.

There ARE a great many wierdos at TDF I'd just as soon stay over there, so I guess perhaps we should be careful what we wish for? Just a thought, for what it is worth.

Mahtek

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Re: Get ODC on the map!
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2011, 03:42:49 PM »
Winston,

Something Awful didn't find us too boring and small, they found us to be boringly sane!  ;)

Casperghostboy's blog was far smaller, but it was a treasure trove of delightful nuttyness. That's why he got several threads over there of 30+ pages.


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Bronwen

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Re: Get ODC on the map!
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2011, 04:51:58 PM »
Winston,

Something Awful didn't find us too boring and small, they found us to be boringly sane!  ;)


Indeed! It even went so far that one of the SA crew joined here and had a fairly good chat record going without spam or hatefulness, but it apparently did seem that overall ODC was just not that much fun to bash. I would attribute that to the overall behavior of the people here.
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N. poeticus

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Re: Get ODC on the map!
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2011, 05:53:08 PM »
if you want a big thing, it would be easier to open a few accounts on troll sites yourself and "advertise" over there... increases visitors, increases hits, increases ranking... for free... and makes us known all over the web in no time... ::)

Yes,  low brow comedy of trolls, can draw in traffic very effectively from elsewhere. 

I am going to charge ODC and TDF soon a big fat fee, because they are cashing in on all the traffic I bring in, for simply me being me!   :laugh:   

Starting a thread elsewhere like this:  "Would you have sex with one of these [insert link to Sinthetics]" 
Then "Look, people talk about boinking dolls on this forum [insert ODC link]! It's so gross!"  Hundreds would pour in to scope it out. 
Then the real kicker: "What's with this Narcissus fellow, look at his dolls, he even dresses them in girls clothing for God's sake!"  That would bring in hundreds more.  And maybe  :police:!   :o   :laugh: 

Tell me where you are going to do it - every mention of my name, I want a cut.   :laugh:  Wait, every comment on me or about me, I want paid. 

Maybe I already have been doing this all along...



Yeah buddy!  Look at all that!

 :-*

Thanks trolls!  Keep on trolling!  Dollies want some more Narciso Rodriguez perfume:  http://www.essence-narcisorodriguez.com/us/

 :laugh:

Oh, and if the  :police: were ever to come to arrest me because of my dollies and media alerted of it, I will wear an ODC shirt, or Sinthetics shirt, or whatever you want, for a price!   :laugh: 

It would go towards bail.   :laugh:

But that won't happen, because my dollies are EXACTLY 18, not a second under, nor a second over.  I dress them in the clothes that I do because they fit them, why the fuck would I dress them in baggy women's clothing?  Because of a stigma others have?  Fuck no.  But don't mention that, it would destroy the low brow comedy, and thus my profits, so shut up about that.   :laugh:
Genesis 2:18  "The [Doll] God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a [doll] suitable for him.”

Matthew 5:16 "Let your [photos] so shine before men, that they may see your [pretty dollies], and glorify [their Doll Maker]."

my photos: http://www.dollalbum.com/dollgallery/index.php?cat=11660

Videos of my mannequin Kristen can be watched here on my YouTube playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLo50bfTa6YGkjEMY6SJRckkgAY-SBq_kJ

Fuzzy78

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Re: Get ODC on the map!
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2011, 07:41:14 PM »
Oh, and if the  :police: were ever to come to arrest me because of my dollies and media alerted of it, I will wear an ODC shirt, or Sinthetics shirt, or whatever you want, for a price!   :laugh:

It would go towards bail.   :laugh:

now thats what i call a worthy cause :P (not ment as sarcasm, just found it funny)

Ray Rentell

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Re: Get ODC on the map!
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2011, 03:38:39 AM »
I have no doubt that ODC will grow and grow given time and appear more and more to search engines as the input increases .

A simple search for "silicone dolls" brings up all the usual manufactures including some I have never heard of and the forums but not ODC or Sinthetics yet .
I looked at two pages to find TDF and all the manufactures on one engine, Google.

From my limited knowledge the more silicone dolls are mention here then would not the search engines then pick up the traffic for ODC and move it up the search ladder?

As for increasing the awareness of Sinthetics to the world the only way would be advertising.
I remember when Horward Stern was given an RD, the TV programs about dolls where RD's where mentioned, did not Playboy  run an article about them way back in the day?
.
For any doll manufacture to sell dolls they need to go out and grab the medias attention by approaching TV company's and the media..

And back to the subject ,TDF is a commercial site out to advertise and sell dolls for paying manufacturers , this site is as it says , is a community site where a bunch of like minded people come to talk about dolls they own just for pleasure.
For it to climb up the search engine ladder it just needs more input from members but then I am quite happy with the slow growth here as you get to "know" people.
TDF has become a zoo!

My limited input .... strong coffee at breakfast.... ramble on Ray... :)

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mytime

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Re: Get ODC on the map!
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2011, 09:01:56 AM »
Quote
I'm surprised to see members here now discuss manufacturer advertising with a positive point of view, because ever since TDF went for it, people smelled manufacturer bias and blamed management for it.

When I read back remarks then only as far I can see manufacturer advertising has been looked at from a negative point of view in this thread.

Further TDF ran on the money earned by the erotic shop. First that did went very well and I made a little surplus of money but I have used that money for the server TDF has ran on, to cut down cost. The income of the webshop decreased due credit crisis and due bad maintenance of it. I think I have underestimated the effect of a lot dead links in the webshop.
If ODC management decides for an erotic webshop I'am prepaired to help and supply the information needed to set it up, the money could also finance the needed SEO and pagerank optimalisation work to get ODC on the map.

Mytime & Helen & Carmen


Doll community member since april 2003, doll owner since august 2004

Musician

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Re: Get ODC on the map!
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2011, 11:47:31 AM »
     Musician,

     When a person chooses and purchases a doll, that doll is always the right kind of doll for that person, regardless of doll type, make, model, sex, or features. Sometimes we don't do enough homework, but for the kind of cash outlay that today's dolls demand, most of us do. Do not ever let anyone tell you that you have the wrong doll. How you see your doll is the only important factor.

The Mod Squad
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Thank you for that, Noq.

I assure you that I was not at any time in doubt about my choice. It wasn't that it was an inferior product. Just the opposite, in fact. It was that it had the wrong name associated with the wrong people for some "unbiased" folks over there at TDF.
If I said anything positive about my doll, or Matt and Bronwen, I had a target painted on my back, and I had a lot of positive things to say about both my LD, Roselle, and Matt and Bronwen's character. I am still very happy with my choice, and love Roselle more each day.

Sorry, I don't want to derail this thread and make it to be about another forum. I just wanted to be clear about that point so that a newbie would not be confused about my feeling about my Lovable Doll.

If we were to set up a toy store like Mytime was talking about, I would be willing to buy lube and stuff out of it. Whatever it takes to keep ODC going and growing.

But I might be getting ahead of myself here on that, since we're talking about generating traffic to get us farther up the search list.

I've got it! We somehow put the name Weiner in it! That will get some traffic.  :laugh:

For our European friends:
If you have not heard about it, our latest sex scandle involving a politician has the name of Anthony Weiner.  :o
My doll's name is Roselle. She is a Lovable Doll, made by Matt Krivicke. Makeup by Bronwen Keller.

N. poeticus

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Re: Get ODC on the map!
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2011, 12:08:08 PM »
Quote
I'm surprised to see members here now discuss manufacturer advertising with a positive point of view, because ever since TDF went for it, people smelled manufacturer bias and blamed management for it.

When I read back remarks then only as far I can see manufacturer advertising has been looked at from a negative point of view in this thread.

Actually I have a very positive view of it, but I don't think anyone else does.  Profit motive, commercial, money making things like that seem to be like dirty words in our culture today - which is unfortunate.  If you look at my simple example before, I see it as being an extrememly effective way to curb bias, because of the competition to get ad sapce if based soley upon who pledges the most money for the spot gets it, and not who I want to have the spot, see.  I thought most of the folks here prefer unbias - I think I gave an example for financing TDF costs, with the profit motive as it's drive, that is like the most unbiased that one can get, and which is both mutually beneficial to the forum and to the Doll Maker. Again, that was an example and I have no idea how it actually works on TDF today, I was just trying to give a POSITIVE point of view on advertising and financing.  I think financing is getting such a bad rap in our culture, profit, money making, wealth - If anyone cares to look at Dr. Yaron Brook (executive director at the Ayn Rand Institute)   In Defense of Finance  you can watch his lecture on the Ayn Rand Centers website, the 2011 ARC Speakers Series, for free, it deals with the "widespread hatred of the profit motive" and defends the profit motive and finance.  Need a link, ask me, if you can't find it.

I just think it's good to look at what more traffic could mean for ODC, as mytime brought up.  This is like a think tank/open discussion right now - not only thinking of ways to promote ODC, Sinthetics brand name and so forth, but also thinking about any possible impact on this site itself, costs associated with higher traffic, and how to finance that if it becomes problematic.  I just want to make sure that financing through ads and the like is not looked upon as inherently evil or as not being "good for the community" to borrow language I can't understand much of, but you get the picture. 

But I might be getting ahead of myself here on that, since we're talking about generating traffic to get us farther up the search list.

Right, I might be to.  But the two are kind of entertwined once that traffic is draw in, so considering right now, whether or not it would be best to be aggressive about pushing ODC out there more or not, and any possible impact it could have on ODC, I think can all be brought up in this discussion, which is naturally happening, even though the title of the thread is exclamatory in nature, some are suggesting exploring whether or not it would be good to do so mainly because of cost or what to do about any possible future costs, etc.
Genesis 2:18  "The [Doll] God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a [doll] suitable for him.”

Matthew 5:16 "Let your [photos] so shine before men, that they may see your [pretty dollies], and glorify [their Doll Maker]."

my photos: http://www.dollalbum.com/dollgallery/index.php?cat=11660

Videos of my mannequin Kristen can be watched here on my YouTube playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLo50bfTa6YGkjEMY6SJRckkgAY-SBq_kJ

ourdoll1

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Re: Get ODC on the map!
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2011, 10:09:53 PM »
No one is saying that making money is a bad thing,  It's not.
 HOWEVER, how the money is made CAN be.

If we say, open up a clothing and accessories store for use by the members to help support ODC, that would be good - an option that everyone could use that does not discriminate between doll types.

 To have the manufacturers  advertise or support the forum would NOT be good.  Because then there would be the risk / temptation to try to influence the forum itself.  Say for instance : "We'll send you plenty of add money if you'll just watch out for posts about the body of our doll being much harder now"..   Situations like that contradict the reason we're here to begin with - the open and honest discussion and reviews of all dolls.

janesays

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Re: Get ODC on the map!
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2011, 10:25:24 PM »
Quote from: ourdoll1
No one is saying that making money is a bad thing,  It's not.
 HOWEVER, how the money is made CAN be.

If we say, open up a clothing and accessories store for use by the members to help support ODC, that would be good - an option that everyone could use that does not discriminate between doll types.

 To have the manufacturers  advertise or support the forum would NOT be good.  Because then there would be the risk / temptation to try to influence the forum itself.  Say for instance : "We'll send you plenty of add money if you'll just watch out for posts about the body of our doll being much harder now"..   Situations like that contradict the reason we're here to begin with - the open and honest discussion and reviews of all dolls.
Excellent post. Keeping the hobby in the doll owners hands is what it's all about. Corporatization begins at the lowest level and eats from the roots all the way to the bud leaving a tree to fall when a hard wind blows.


Delilah is a Realdoll Body 5 Face 11

N. poeticus

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Re: Get ODC on the map!
« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2011, 10:59:01 PM »
If we say, open up a clothing and accessories store for use by the members to help support ODC, that would be good - an option that everyone could use that does not discriminate between doll types.

That's an idea, but I would think, the prices of the clothing or whatnot would be a bit jacked up in order to turn enough profit, which isn't a bad thing, I mean it's in place to make money, but it may leave it VULNERABLE in the marketplace, because we might be able to get the very same thing at a lower price, see, elsewhere.  Take me as an example:  I love the TDF porn store or whatever it's called, because it has tons of pussies to look at - when I found one I want, I went to Amazon to buy it for less.  See what I mean.  Now, this might not be the case with the clothing store or whatever store it would be, I'm just saying, that competition in the marketplace leaves stores vulnerable to other stores that offer the same thing, for less and/or for less in shipping, etc..

I still think that ad bid is the best way to go.  BUT, the problem would be the bidding part of it.  I doubt any Maker cares about ad space here on ODC, except perhaps Sinthetics.  BUT where there is a lot of competition due to many Makers and much traffic - it would work BEST at such a place, like TDF for example.  If Candy8teen is willing to pledge $100/month for prime ad space, cool, but here comes RealDoll in the bid arena, pledging $200/month, exactly twice as much.  RD wins the space, forum owners get the money to go toward the forum costs, and/or make a profit off of it.  It's breathtakingly beautiful to me, both sides of the exchange.  Plus it is totally unbiased, all about the money, not about playing favorites, or getting a bribe or discount to do so, etc.  BUT AGAIN, this ad bid war, might not work well here, there might be only one Maker that would bid for it - Sinthetics.  Without real competition, you probably won't get anywhere near as mcuh, unless you try to soak them or some other kind of tactic in order to get the money to finance cost of forum.   

"We'll send you plenty of add money if you'll just watch out for posts about the body of our doll being much harder now"..

As I said before, I am pretty sure there are plenty of dealings that could possibly go on that does not involve the exchange of money, or making of it.  People have interests for different reasons.  People who are encourgaed to put reviews/photos/threads on forums to help Makers out, there is no money involved there.  Bumping threads, posting comments to bump threads, all kinds of things are done in support of this or that on the forums.  People coming to others defense, etc.  Somethings are apparent and explicitly done to get doll brands out there, other things not so much, or are unknown that they are going on.  All without money being involved.  Comments and opinions, too.  You have to see who they are coming from and what they are saying and how to judge it for yourself - as with anything. 

Excellent post. Keeping the hobby in the doll owners hands is what it's all about.

It can be about that, about making money, too.  It's up to those that have to really deal with the cost of the forum itself.

Corporatization begins at the lowest level and eats from the roots all the way to the bud leaving a tree to fall when a hard wind blows.
 

What does "corporatization" have to do with selling ad space to the highest bidder?  I'd comment more on what you said, but I have already had two warnings about talking about something on this forum already, and do not want to get banned or something if I do it once mre, as I want to now, but won't.

Anyways, right now the cost to finance ODC, I have no idea how it's done, if there are any problems now, but looking at what could happen with more traffic is a very good thing, since Bronwen is pushing for it in no uncertain terms "GET ODC ON THE MAP!".

If the cost is a problem later on, one could say to the forum - we are going under unless we get such and such money by such and such time.  If say, Sinthetics, is getting business from this forum, they obviously have an interest in keeping it going, so they may donate the money, or others in the community might, because they value the place and don't want it to go bye-bye.  Financing can be done in a variety of ways, and it's anyone that pays the cost now, thinks it will be problematic later with more traffic, nows the time to discuss it, it people are going to push ODC exposure around the web.
Genesis 2:18  "The [Doll] God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a [doll] suitable for him.”

Matthew 5:16 "Let your [photos] so shine before men, that they may see your [pretty dollies], and glorify [their Doll Maker]."

my photos: http://www.dollalbum.com/dollgallery/index.php?cat=11660

Videos of my mannequin Kristen can be watched here on my YouTube playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLo50bfTa6YGkjEMY6SJRckkgAY-SBq_kJ

Bronwen

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Re: Get ODC on the map!
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2011, 11:36:38 PM »
BUT, the problem would be the bidding part of it.  I doubt any Maker cares about ad space here on ODC, except perhaps Sinthetics. 

You have misunderstood our statements amazingly... It has been clear from the start that Sinthetics as a company, and Matt and I individually, feel that doll manufacturers advertising on a supposedly consumer focused forum is a bad thing. If ODC started offering paid advertising we would state publicly again (both as individuals and as representatives of the company) that manufacturer advertising is bad for all the reasons already stated.

You're also consistently making comments about advertising based on your ideals and not based at all on the facts of what happens (there is no bidding - certain companies are offered space and others aren't, not to mention other situations I am not going to discuss). Seriously, this topic of paid advertising should be dropped. You are talking about something you have no personal knowledge of, and the owners of this forum have stated clearly they are not interested in entertaining paid manufacturer advertising. Let the dead horse rest in peace.
Champagne for My Real Friends, Real Pain for My Sham Friends