Author Topic: New Dollworks adapter system  (Read 3633 times)

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Dollstudio

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New Dollworks adapter system
« on: May 21, 2016, 09:47:57 AM »
DollWorks introduced a new adapter system that allows to cross boundaries between manufacturers. These non-destructive adapters bridge between different types of neck connectors and hook up heads of manufacturer A with bodies of manufacturer B, and bodies of manufacturer C with heads of manufacturer D. Approximately 1,814,400 new dolls variations will be available very soon.

We believe that these adapters are the first step into a new era of hybrid dolls. Hybrid dolls will allow our customers a significantly broader range of choices. The unreal amount of 1,814,400 new combinations is calculated based on the 1st generation of adapters that is available right now. Depending on user feedback, we will extend the line of adapters, so this figure might increase even more rapidly in the near future.

Also we believe that hybrid dolls open new means to resolve certain manufacturer's deficits; e.g. some manufacturers do provide only a limited number of heads enabled for oral sex. You still crave for the bodies they make? Get a head from another manufacturer and connect it with the matching adapter. The manufacturer of your doll does not have Caucasian heads or heads with elf ears? You are in love with a certain head but do not fancy the bodies available for this head, or your doll has acquired a persona but her body breaks down and the manufacturer went out of business? You get the idea. There are lots of use cases.

The adapters most certainly will not solve all issues of the linup of every manufacturer, but they will resolve a lot of issues for flexible customers. We are quite sure that in a couple of years it will be hard to imagine how limited the freedom of choice was before these adapters became available.



How to read this chart: The first colum lists the currently supported head connectors by brand. Eight brands are supported by 1stgen adapters. The next eight colums list which body can be connected to which head. Example: A DS head can be connected with a DH168, JM, OR, Sanhui, YL, and WM body.

There are a couple of things to note. This are mechanical adapters that usually work in one direction; not all of them are necessarily reverse adapters. The adapters take care of the mechanical connection, but they do not bother about proportions between head and body. We will try to collect recommendations for combinations that work well. Also, skin tones do not match equally well across manufacturers; in some cases there is almost no difference visible, in other cases some makeup work might be adviseable. We will release charts with skin tone proximity in the next months.

Sandro

Z-Dr

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Re: New Dollworks adapter system
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2016, 01:04:58 PM »
This is a great thing to have, but, like you said, it brings up compatibility issues.  Size and color are definitely issues, but what about material compatibility?

Several of these manufacturers use silicone while most use TPE.  That could be quite disastrous to put a TPE head on a silicone doll or vice versa.

Maybe you could include a material compatibility designator, or just split it into two charts. 

Compatibility between different manufacturers heads and bodies has long been a topic of discussion and some have tried specialized adapters, but it has never been addressed mainstream like this.  It is nice to see it happening.  Thanks! :cheers:

Dollstudio

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Re: New Dollworks adapter system
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2016, 01:24:48 PM »
[…] what about material compatibility? Several of these manufacturers use silicone while most use TPE.  That could be quite disastrous to put a TPE head on a silicone doll or vice versa.

There are contradictory reports about material incompatibility between TPE and silicone, so clearly yes, those materials should be separated to be on the safe side. We currently use a two-sided foil "washer" to separate the TPE and the silicone side, so the two material groups do not touch each other. We considered to make the "washer" part of the adapter, but I prefer to keep it removeable and, most of all, soft to avoid cutting into the material.

Regarding silicone of brand A on silicone of brand B, or TPE of brand C on TPE of brand D, theoretically there could be material interactions as well because all manufacturers use some (undeclared) additives like color pigments or softeners (one of my customers claims to be allergic to the 4woods silicone; as silicone is so inert to most organic substances, I believe something like this can only be caused by additives). So the residual risk is similar like when you own two dolls from different manufacturers and put them onto the same blanket, or allow them to touch each other, or put a dress worn by a TPE doll onto a silicone doll.

Sandro

Z-Dr

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Re: New Dollworks adapter system
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2016, 03:51:24 PM »
[hijack]
Material compatibility seems to be an issue that manufacturers avoid like the plague.  They are too busy touting the "advantages" of their selected material.

From experience, I know that melting occurs with contact (prolonged) between different materials.  I have had it happen between tin-cure and platinum-cure silicone dolls, as well as between toys made of different materials.  I have not been able to find reliable research to explain this.  However, I have also had melting of silicone just due to prolonged body contact.  It appears that it is not an issue with the substrate (silicone or TPE) but with the fillers (oils) and their ability to migrate.  I am guessing it was my body oils that caused the melting of my silicone boobie-pillow (slept on every night for many months before it started to deteriorate), which only happened at the point of contact.  I had suspicions that it may be heat related but have since concluded that the heat may have just provided a catalyst for oil migration.  I have not yet had an issue with TPE (knock-on-wood) but that is probably because I am overly careful with anything TPE and have not allowed TPE/silicone contact.

These materials are essentially a matrix made of interconnected structural material (polymer or monomer molecular chains) that have an inherent space (interstitial) between them that is occupied by fillers (such as oil).  Silicone is "non-pourous" meaning that it can be sealed and sterilized, but the fillers are still able to migrate between the polymer chains at the molecular level.  TPE is not "non-pourous" and cannot be sealed (yet) or sterilized, which I assume means that the interstitial spaces are substantially larger and could provide a pathway for larger than molecular structures such as proteins or bacteria.  Note: this is just my opinion (SWAG) based on my own research.  Anyway, the fillers are separate from the substrate and able to migrate through and between materials, given a pathway (direct contact).  This mechanism is likely responsible for staining and stain dispersal through these materials (the oil acts as a solvent to absorb the dyes).

Oil (fillers) are used to increase softness which decreases material strength (structural integrity).  Extra oil from an external source can be absorbed causing materials to get soft and tacky and lose structural integrity, know as "melting".  The material giving up the oil will be affected as well, likely by getting harder, the degree of which would probably depend on availability of fillers to migrate in to replace that which was lost.  Which brings up the question, which substance will melt which?

My guess is this would be driven by 1) filler concentrations, 2) filler affinity, and 3) ability for fillers to migrate within the structural matrix.  The more something leaches oils, the greater the likelihood that it will be the oil "donator" (oil will go from high concentration to low concentration).  The oil will go to the strongest "sponge", which will be the one that melts.  The result will be governed by the ability to disperse the added oil within the matrix.  If the matrix is dense, like silicone, the absorbed oil will soften and break down the contact area before it has a chance to migrate.  So, my guess is that the one who has greater amounts of fillers, characterized by leaching, will probably be the melter, and the one that leaches less will probably get melted.  In general this means TPE should melt silicone.  Some silicone doll makers use excessive amounts of softeners (filler oil) so it may be possible for them to melt TPE.  Someday, someone will figure this all out.
[/hijack]

... all manufacturers use some (undeclared) additives like color pigments or softeners ...
Yes, well said.

We currently use a two-sided foil "washer" to separate the TPE and the silicone side, so the two material groups do not touch each other. We considered to make the "washer" part of the adapter, but I prefer to keep it removeable and, most of all, soft to avoid cutting into the material.
What about collar area?  Won't they still make contact at the outer perimeter?  Sounds like you are definitely addressing the compatibility issues.  Thanks!

I want to reiterate that I think what you are doing with this adapter system is wonderful!  :thumb:
 

grenouille

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Re: New Dollworks adapter system
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2016, 04:12:09 PM »
A great idea ! Many people don't buy dolls because they like Something about one doll but Something turn them off so they end up not buying the doll.

Many western silicone doll manufacturers refuse to sell heads or bodies if you don't already posess a full doll or order a full doll.

I Wonder if you can only buy a head to start, and one day buy a body from one of those manufacturers and vice versa? How does it work?


incred

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Re: New Dollworks adapter system
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2016, 06:19:09 PM »
As with vehicles it is called 'Hot Rodding', or Hot Rod doll. Putting one makes engine/transmission in another makes vehicle.

I did that with a Boy Toy head on a Realdoll Body 5 and vice versa;





Of course it helps when the skin tones are the same, and the dolls are the same size.

However I also tried it with a Realdoll B5 F11, and a Ruby13 Presley body and head 9;



A little tougher when they are different sizes, and skin tones.

Z-Dr

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Re: New Dollworks adapter system
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2016, 06:31:50 PM »
A little tougher when they are different sizes, and skin tones.

The size difference is pretty noticeable even with the boytoy/RD switch.  Incred, thanks for showing these pics, they really exhibit the size and skin tone issues that one faces when mixing and matching between doll lines.

What we need is a standardized method of quantifying head sizes and cross-link them to compatible body sizes, as well as some sort of skin-tone compatibility chart.

I think what Sandro provided is a great start.  Now we need to go the next step.  Trouble is, someone needs to have access to all these products to determine a compatibility matrix.  Defining some sort of quantifiable head size metric would be a good start.  Any ideas? 

Dollstudio

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Re: New Dollworks adapter system
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2016, 10:44:26 PM »
Many western silicone doll manufacturers refuse to sell heads or bodies if you don't already posess a full doll or order a full doll. I Wonder if you can only buy a head to start, and one day buy a body from one of those manufacturers and vice versa? How does it work?

We can cover this as a vendor, as long as manufacturers cooperate or we can dance around obstacles they throw in our way. For most of the brands that are currently supported by the adapters, we can provide separate heads or bodies without a head.

But those adapters are not only a sales tools to push brands that we sell. For example, mi6c (the designer of these adapters) fancies Orient Industry heads, Silicone Art bodies (both are very rare in western countries), and to some degree Doll Sweet heads. With the adapters, he took care of a "developer's itch". This will help those who acquire those Japanese dolls 2nd hand or already have dolls from multiple manufacturers/brands.

However, don't worry about the commercial aspects of these things; even if some adapters will not make profit through increased sales, we have some ideas why many of you might be interested in these adapters in the future. They will be the core of a new line of products to help maintain, care, repair, and display doll's heads. Stay tuned, there will be more to keep all these beauties in great shape and display them in a tasteful manner, even without body :-)

Regarding skin tone compatibility, there is some easy skin tone matching for those dolls made by Jinsan factory (WM/OR/YL, probably Hitdoll as well). The downside is that (we believe) that color consistency from this factory is not precise (the newer dolls are lighter than those shipped about a year ago). Skin tones of default Sanhui and Doll Sweet's LPink seem to match without additional work; Orient Industry and Doll Sweet seem to match rather well, also.

Though, other combinations will require makeup work - for TPE with makeup foundation (semi-permanent) or for silicone with extrinsic silicone paint like FuseFX (permanent), or makeup. A lot of people change the appearance of their doll's faces already with makeup, so if you have reached this level, skin tone matching across brands by eye sight might be already within reach for you.

For the more scientific individuals: Photographies can only help as a rough reference, even on a calibrated display; meaning: We will have to measure a lot of skin tones with a colorimeter and figure out how to calculate representative averages. If we have figured this part out, we can provide colour values and pigment recommendations for DIY enthusiasts. But this is a huge "if" as skin tone colour matching can be anything but trivial in certain cases.

So yes, the mix & match approach has some limits and definitely needs explorers (like Incred, who did not even need adapters for that) to understand what makes sense and what not. The adapters are a foundation to get your brain grease flowing. So please keep the ideas coming… ;-)

Sandro

Z-Dr

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Re: New Dollworks adapter system
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2016, 11:00:49 PM »
I like your style Sandro!

Dollstudio

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Re: New Dollworks adapter system
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2016, 11:18:13 AM »
The DollWorks Adapter System has been extended. With the latest adapter updates, Doll Sweet, Orient Industry, Sanhui, JM Doll, WM Dolls and WM Doll, YL Doll, Oriental Rose, Hitdoll, Lifedoll, Silicone Art, and Z-Onedoll are supported.

The hybrid doll world becomes even bigger with this. The roughly calculated number of possible combinations is now around 27,216,000.



Sandro

Dollstudio

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Re: New Dollworks adapter system
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2016, 11:23:53 AM »
The latest addition to the DollWorks Adpater System is a Maidlee Doll to M16 adapter. The first working sample was finalized last Friday by mi6c.



The ML-to-M16 adapter allows to connect Maidlee Doll's Maid-Fong bodies with any M16-threaded head. That includes the complete range of silicone Z-Onedoll heads, but also TPE head from Jellynew, WM Doll, WM Dolls, YL Doll, OR Doll, Maiden Doll etc.

Please note: If a silicone body and a TPE head is combined into a hybrid doll, a mechanical separation of these two materials is recommended.

Maid-Fong features a magnetic neck connector. The ML-to-M16 adapter follows this design approach and connects to the body with a magnet. The side facing the M16 thread in the head is a regular threaded rod.



As usual with creating hybrid dolls, skin tone matching is an issue. Maid-Fong's default skin tone to some degree matches skin tones like "light", "natural" or any skin tone with a certain amount of light pink pigments.

This is a head by Z-Onedoll with attached Maidlee Doll adapter. Just plug the head into your Maif-Fong, et voilà…



For further information about this new adapter feel free to contact either me or mi6c.

Sandro

Everhard

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Re: New Dollworks adapter system
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2016, 04:23:55 PM »
The hybrid doll world becomes even bigger with this. The roughly calculated number of possible combinations is now around 27,216,000.

I am definitely going to need a bigger home!
 :D

Dollstudio

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Re: New Dollworks adapter system
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2017, 03:40:35 PM »
Hi,

another update of the compatibility matrix:



Bigger image is here.

Supported brands are now, in alphabetical order: 4woods (4W), Doll Forever (D4E), Doll House 168 (DH), Doll Sweet (DS) respectively EX Doll (EX-lite, EX), Happy Doll (HA), Hitdoll (HI), JM Doll (JM), Jellynew (JN), JY Doll (JY), Lifedoll (LI), Maiden Doll (MA), Maidlee Doll (MD), Orient Industry (OI), OR Doll (Oriental Rose, OR), Rifrano (RI), Sanhui (SH), Silicone Art (SA), Unison (UN), WM Doll as well as WM Dolls (WM), YL Doll (YL), and Z-Onedoll (ZO).

More information about the adapter system: http://en.dollstudio.org/node/3036

Sandro

mi6c

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Re: New Dollworks adapter system
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2017, 11:49:25 AM »
I guess I might as well post one of the more unusual adapters here.
This one allows to put Doll Sweet heads onto EXlite bodies, and while they have the same origin, their attachment is different.
In terms of color matching this is more of a mismatch. no matter what skin tone you choose for the silicone head as the novel foam bodies tan doesn't match any of them.
Still, the body allows a nicely shaped full size model to be easily transported so may have its merits for photo shoots.
The first one shows the parts involved:


The second one has the original DS head attachment replaced by the adapter:


The third shows what it will look like:


If you look carefully, you can see a wire, this is a feature that benefits posing as Doll Sweet heads have a central small cylindrical opening through the head that allows to take load off their dolls and use a wire as a third point of contact for stabilization.
One can actually suspend a doll in the air with the original equipment if being careful, and while that would be possible with the EXlite body( official weight 8kg) using my wire I would not recommend doing so for several reasons.

Kind regards.
優月 - Yuzuki = Orient Industry Ange Bihaku Koyuki head on Silicone Arts Super Styling( SS) body
艶 - Tsuya = Orient Industry Petit Jewel Izumi head on Real Taste 146L body
If you have questions about adapters to put a head on a different producers body feel free to ask me.